Ten Minutes with Ellen Sandbeck

My wife Susie met Ellen Sandbeck first through pottery classes at the Depot here in Duluth. At some point along the way our families became intertwined and our friendship continues to this day. Ellen and Walt have been part of our Philosophy Club four years and we get together for on special occasions at times. Their kids and ours were of similar ages, and both families seemed to appreciate the creative energy and values found in the other. And I always have high regard for productive writer friends whose work has found its way into print.

When we first met, both our families lived in the neighborhood of Duluth’s Central Hillside. Eventually, both our families moved to the country. Susie grew up on a farm and needed the wide open spaces, and the Sandbecks are consummate gardeners. Back to nature is no fad with Walt and Ellen.

The following interview was stimulated by a desire to share Ellen’s wit and perhaps help increase awareness for her books.

enny: You started out as more of an artist. How did you become interested in writing?
Ellen: I was recruited by a non-profit environmental group that wanted me to write a booklet about non-toxic housekeeping and gardening--one of our landscaping clients belonged to the group, and volunteered me for the job before telling me about it! I had 15 years’ worth of notes that I’d been compiling about organic landscaping, and the “booklet” turned into a book which I named “Slug Bread & Beheaded Thistles; Amusing and Useful Techniques for Nontoxic Housekeeping and Gardening.”

enny: You illustrated books for the Dover Series. What kinds of things did you learn from that experience?
Ellen: Those books contained hundreds of images, so I was essentially paid to practice and improve my technique. I learned that no matter how many people love an image, it doesn’t matter if the owner of the company doesn’t get it. Also, it is a bad idea to have one’s work space in the middle of the living room, where one’s finished product is vulnerable to the predations of crayon-happy toddlers and coffee-toting guests.

enny: How would you describe your writing style, not the end product, but the process?
Ellen: My writing process... come up with an idea for a project that requires a lot of research; attempt to write a proposal that a publishing company will be interested in; endure ridicule and derision caused by my glaring incompetence at writing proposals; hire a friend to write the proposal; submit proposal to my agent; wait for contract, which is almost inevitably too short for the proposed project; nearly work myself to death meeting the deadline (They don’t call them deadlines for nothing. My last one was actually more of a “drop-deadline.”); wait for the editor’s suggested revisions; make revisions, send manuscript back; wait anxiously to hear those magic words: “Your manuscript has been accepted;” wait for check. OR, alternately, wait to hear that the manuscript has been rejected, then try to figure out how to raise the money to self-publish.

enny: You began by self-publishing a book on growing worms. What did you learn from this experience?
Ellen: Actually, I began by writing Slug Bread & Beheaded Thistles, see question #1. We are still producing copies of “Laverme’s Handbook of Indoor Vermicomposting.”

enny: How did you get your first contract with a New York Publisher?
Ellen: Let’s see... I self-published Slug Bread & Beheaded Thistles, sold the entire first printing of 3,000 copies, then had to do another printing in order to pay off the loan for the first printing. Cartons of books take up a lot of room, by the way. We stored them in our hallway. (It’s a long story. See question #1. It was supposed to be paid for by the environmental group. I got screwed.) I sold a total of about 10,000 books, paid off my loan, made a profit, and after about three years thought that the book was winding down and dying a natural death, when suddenly, out of the blue, I got a phone call from a literary agent in New York City. I thought at first that the call was a hoax, because I hadn’t sent anything to an agent. I kept waiting for my husband’s friend Bob to quit talking in a falsetto and laugh at me. (He’d done this to me many times.) But it turned out that the woman on the other end of the line was really a literary agent in New York City. She said that she’d bought a copy of Slug Bread at a garden center on Long Island, and was wondering whether I’d be interested in having her represent me because she thought she could sell the book to a big publisher. Then she said: “You don’t have to make a decision now. We can hang up and you can think about it and call me back.” I thought that was uproariously funny: “Yeah right! What decision? No, I don’t want to make money? No, I don’t want to get published?” I had to expand the book a bit, because the original version was only 80 pages long, and when I was done, my agent held an auction for the book because eight publishers were interested. Broadway/Doubleday had the winning bid. I am very lucky to be represented by the best literary agent in the entire universe.

enny: You are currently on your fourth book? What is the “working title” and what’s it about?
Ellen: I submitted the manuscript for my fourth book to Scribner on August 31, 2008. I made my deadline by one day. I’m still doing the back and forth revisions with my editor. The working title is “Green Barbarians; How to Live Bravely On Your Home Planet.” I’m not sure whether the publisher will go for that title, but I’m hoping!

enny: I loved the look and feel of your first two books, Slug Bread and Beheaded Thistles and Eat More Dirt. Your creativity spills out in so many ways. Do you like writing more or making art?
Ellen: Making art is much more fun, but writing pays better.

enny: What ways of promoting your books have you found most effective?
Ellen: Readers’ word of mouth. Giving talks.

enny: What advice would you give to someone just starting out as a writer?

Ellen: Unless you are already famous, it is very, very difficult to pique the interest of a publisher or an agent. Publishers very rarely read anything that is unagented, and agents are not interested in authors who are not already published. I think that one of the only ways around this Catch-22 is to self-publish. I usually give aspiring writers the same advice: Produce a manuscript that you really love and really believe in, pay a really good editor to edit it, then self-publish. (If you don’t believe in your book strongly enough to put your own money on the line to publish it, why should anyone else?) After your cartons of books arrive, send out review copies to local newspapers and bookstores, contact your local Barnes & Noble or other large bookseller, ask for the contact information for the regional buyer, then send a copy to the buyer. Pray for good reviews.

enny: What are you working on now? And what would you work on next if you knew you could not fail?
Ellen: I am still working on the revisions of, and illustrations for, Green Barbarians. If I knew I could not fail? I would work on women’s and children’s rights issues in repressive, patriarchal countries. I think misogyny is the root of all evil.

ennyman: Thanks, Ellen!