Professor Steve Ostovich Discusses the Value of Philosophy for Business and Life

Gordon Marino (L) waits for next question from  Steve Ostovich.

I first me Steve Ostovich in June at the Magnolia Salon in Carlton. The discussion that evening centered around Gordon Marino's book The Existentialist's Survival Guide: How to Live Authentically in an Inauthentic Age. Dr. Ostovich, philosophy chair at St. Scholastica, had prepared a series of questions for Gordon Marino, much like William F. Buckley's Firing Line, though with somewhat different subject matter. Ostovich played the role of interrogator.

A good bracing discussion ensued and afterwards I reached out to suggest we share an hour over coffee sometime. The discussion generated themes for an interview relating to philosophy and life.

EN: Maybe we can begin with a brief outline of your career path. 

At Perk Place, Kenwood 

Steve Ostovich: After finishing a BA with majors in philosophy and theology at Marquette U. (in Milwaukee), I went to seminary in North Carolina at Duke University. I quickly found that my questions were not shared by my classmates, so I came back to MU, did an MA in biblical studies concentrating on the Hebrew Bible, and looked around for someplace to pursue a PhD. Lots of opportunities, but I ended up staying at Marquette where I could do exactly what I wanted combining philosophy of science and political theology. It was during this time I was awarded a Fulbright Scholarship and did research for a year at the university in Muenster, Germany. When I returned, changes in the department led me to spend two years as an investigator for the Affirmative Action Unit and the City Attorney’s Office in Milwaukee. Eventually I returned to scholarship and college teaching. I came to CSS in 1982, my first full-time appointment, and have never left.

EN: In what ways would the study of philosophy be of value for business leaders? 

SO: The simplest answer may seem facetious, but I don’t mean it to be: “career advancement.” Businesses often look for particular skills in entry-level hires, but when you pay attention to who ends up leading the firm, very often it’s the person who started with a strong liberal education: nothing is more liberating than philosophy. Philosophy develops critical thinking and communication skills, but this is only part of the story. Philosophy fosters leadership ability in working with others—philosophy is based on discussion, thinking deeply and critically and developing visions, and helping the members of a community—business, academic, or other—identify and move in a common direction. This is why leadership demands more than management or administrative skills. People who have pursued philosophy also typically are ethical leaders, not so much because they have studied ethics but because they have learned to value others in the organization or community and the world.

EN: What are the big issues in philosophy today? 

SO: Philosophers are all over the place in the kinds of issues and problems they address; this goes with the territory inasmuch as we’re interested in the principles and ways of thinking that inform whatever we’re doing and in learning to make a good life from our pursuits. But there is a big problem, a common problem, facing philosophy as a community of professionals: inclusiveness. We know better than most how diversity is a requirement for good thinking and living, but the discipline is rooted in a classical, Euro-American centered (that is, white male) tradition. So we, too, are faced with actively pursuing a more diverse philosophical community inclusive of women, people of color, and, in general, voices from other cultures, classes, and parts of the world. And, I’m happy to say, we are making some progress.

EN: How does the study of philosophy help us to become better thinkers? 

SO: First of all, we’re the discipline most centrally concerned with what it means to think; this is why logic is so important to us. We strive to practice good writing and oral communication, skills essential to good thinking. Philosophy also can lead to an awareness of the different ways people put the world together both critically and culturally while providing the tools to evaluate these differences. But all this requires we learn how to listen. Socrates doesn’t seem to have written anything down, but he engaged in discussions in which he hoped to learn from the way truth revealed itself to others as evident in their opinions. To do this, one has to listen closely and openly and respond honestly. This is what we still try to do.

EN: How has Academia changed over the past 40 years? 

SO: We have lost a common understanding of the role of higher education in our society. This is part of a general trend in which private goods defined in economic terms take precedence over the public good, and deeper values all but disappear from public discourse. The consequence for higher education has been a drastic cut in funding and support generally. Fiscal concerns are taking over the academy: boards of trustees and administrators fixate on the bottom line as institutions struggle to survive; faculty and staff are treated like employees and the professoriate becomes a job rather than a vocation; and students become consumers whom we train to be distracted workers rather than active members of a democratic society. It is still possible—indeed, likely—for students to get a first-rate education, but we are turning education into a service industry. We want to be empowered to achieve our wants and desires, but there doesn’t seem to be a place for us to discuss what these should be. So we lose our freedom even as choices proliferate, and while we become good at shopping, we lose the capacity to act. We need to resurrect public discussion of the role of the academy in a healthy society.

EN: Who would you say are your favorite philosophers? Are there any that you especially align with? 

SO: One of the benefits of teaching at a small liberal arts college is I have to teach a wide range of courses in philosophy. This broadens my experience and reading which is good for me as well as for students. Having stated this, I would say my favorite philosopher to read, teach, and discuss is the eighteenth century Scottish empiricist David Hume. What makes him attractive is not so much that I agree with him but his style of thinking and writing, both of which are characterized by humility regarding the possibility of knowing truth. Other favorites (and philosophers about whom I have written in most cases) are: critical theorists like Walter Benjamin, Theodor Adorno, the still vital Jürgen Habermas, and Hannah Arendt, whose collection of essays Thinking without a Banister, I currently am reading; twentieth century French thinkers like Albert Camus, Simone de Beauvoir, and Maurice Merleau-Ponty whose work I am reading with a post-baccalaureate student; and Charles Sanders Peirce and William James, American pragmatists whose concerns are still important and whose style is delightful. Also, my German Doktorvater, the political theologian Johann Baptist Metz. Finally, I still treat the Hebrew Bible as an important philosophical resource for thinking differently.

EN: How about favorite authors? Who are you currently reading? 

SO: Sherman Alexie broadens my world and W. G. Sebald feeds my melancholy. Among essayists, I will always read a piece by Tariq Ali, for even when I don’t understand him or when I disagree with him, I always learn something from him. Among living poets, my colleague and friend Ryan Vine writes lines that speak. My brother and wife now have me reading the mystery novels of Louise Penny. And I just finished a non-fiction history of the Vienna Circle, Exact Thinking in Demented Times, by Karl Sigmund.



Related Links
Fall Schedule for Magnolia Salon (Upcoming Events)
Thursday Evening, Sept. 13: Starry Skies Lake Superior
About Magnolia Salon

Meantime life goes on all around you. Engage it. 

Dreams, Writing Advice and Existentialism

"It's the kind of sentence you put a star by and underscore, then kick to death."
--Statement from last night's dream

I had trouble falling asleep last night so I decided to get up and read a little more from Gordon Marino's The Existentialist's Survival Guide: How to Live Authentically in an Inauthentic Age. Marino was a guest speaker at The Magnolia Salon this past month at the Oldenburg House.

I'm fairly certain that the dream I had, even though I remember no real details, was directly influenced by my reading. The very last thing in the dream was the voice explaining something about writing and the story I was reading: "It's the kind of sentence you put a star by and underscore, then kick to death."

Here's where I believe that sentence came from. Gordon Marino, who has been director of the Hong Kierkegaard Library at St. Olaf College, has also been a lifelong boxing coach. His talk last month was about existentialism, so he really didn't get the opportunity to digress all that much about boxing (he did mention meeting Mike Tyson) but I'm sure he'd said enough to cause my subconscious mind to make a connection to Ernest Hemingway, who had himself written a couple short stories featuring boxers. (My favorite boxing story, however, is Jack London's A Piece of Steak.)

Most of us who write appreciate good sentences. Sometimes we highlight them in the books we own, and sometimes we make discreet, light-colored marks in them when they are a library book. Not that we make it a habit to efface public property, but it helps us find that sentence later so we can savor it again. Occasionally I even keep a list of page numbers on my bookmark so I can find those tasty morsels before returning them to the library.

So it was that in my dream my subconscious adopted this habit of marking sentences and combined it with Hemingway's somewhat pugilistic brutality to create an intriguing statement about writing.

Does it mean anything? I don't know, but it was interesting enough to write down and contemplate later.

* * * *

Just as Marino's book is about authenticity, this morning's monthly email from New York writer and PR guy Don Heymann also dealt with being authentic. (Full disclosure: I shared an apartment with Don my third year at Ohio U.) The title of his article is Keeping it real: Writing that's trustworthy and credible. Before launching his own business in 1985 Heymann was in corporate communications with three Fortune 500 companies. His articles on communication are always spot on and valuable. I have never missed a one. "Keeping it real" offers seven tips, not forty, each being brief and to the point. Check it out. And when you do, put a star by one of the sentences and apply it to your own writing.

Related Links
50 of the Most Beautiful Sentences in Literature
Gordon Marino's The Existentialist's Survival Guide
Another place to get Gordon's book: Zenith Bookstore

Meantime, life goes on all around you. Engage it.

Vigorous Discussion Ensues After Philosophy Profs Explore Existentialism and Authenticity at Magnolia Salon

All photos on this page courtesy Machelle Lind

Last night's featured presenters at the Magnolia Salon were a pair of philosophy professors, Steven Ostovich, Ph.D., philosophy chair at St. Scholastica and Gordon Marino, Ph.D. from St. Olaf College and author of The Existentialist's Survival Guide, subtitled How to Live Authentically in an Inauthentic Age. Even before the event began you could feel the kinetic energy of electric expectation.

Suzie and Gordon Marino with Glenn and Emily Swanson.

The evening began with Glenn and Emily welcoming us and sharing with newcomers some of the rituals and the overarching theme of the Salon: living creative life. They then introduced the profs, who essentially held a prolonged Q&A forum betwixt the two of them over next hour or more, Prof. Ostovich serving as a Dick Cavett of sorts. Their banter was relaxed and the room was engaged as Steve asked questions and Gordon responded with stories. After this, they opened the floor for questions, which erupted with a send-up of hands, questions from every table in the room without exception and without ceasing for seemingly an hour straight.

What thrilled me was knowing that few, if any, here were philosophy majors in college, yet every person in the room seemed totally engaged. Here are a few of my own takeaways from the never-boring-for-a-minute two hours.

What is existentialism as a movement? Gordon Marino described it as a motley crew of philosopher-writers who explore matters of choice, the meaning of life and the limits of reason. It was popular after both World War I and World War II, global events that were exceedingly disruptive in Europe especially.

Gordon Marino listens to a passionate question.

What is meant by an Inauthentic Age? With social media being so pervasive, people become more concerned with how they present themselves, with posturing rather than being authentic. "We've lost a lot," Marino said. As a result we sense our own alienation because we are not ourselves. This sense of alienation is at the heart of existential writing.

In response, Sartre wrote, "Existence precedes essence." We define ourselves by our actions. We exist in time,. Therefore the choices we make create and reveal who I am.

Marino, who also authored Kierkegaard in the Present Age, is the director of the Hong Kierkegaard Library at St. Olaf, so he spoke with great fluency about Kierkegaard. He noted that Kierkegaard addressed issues of morality and faith, obedience and virtue. In our modern era, young people are not interested in hearing about self-discipline and obedience. For Kierkegard, obedience to God involves a leap of faith, by which he means one cannot find God by means of reason. Reason has its limits.

Camus is another favorite of Prof. Marino. He began by citing The Stranger and The Myth of Sisyphus. "Once you give up hope, you're free to be creative," he said. Camus carried this further in The Plague where Dr. Rieu was cognizant of the futility and uselessness of his every action to stop the plague. The point Camus makes, though is not to give up just because you can't win. He emphasized that "the value of what you're doing is more important than the success of your battle." In other words, we are all fighting on two battle fronts. The external world is broken. Even though we will never fix it, it is worth the fight, our responsibility to work toward fixing, toward healing. Then there is our own inner battle. Even though we will never be perfect, it is our task to improve ourselves, to work toward wholeness, even if we never reach it.

At this point one of the two presenters stated, "One of the great benefits of philosophy is that it aids us in self-reflection. What kind of person do you want to be? Are you making progress?

One of the questions asked by someone in the audience led to a comment about the medicalization of everything in the 21st century. We talk about depression and panic attacks, and have meds to deal with whatever we're dealing with. This was followed up with the observation that success can be just as destructive as failure. (EdNote: I thought here of the Simon & Garfunkel song Richard Cory based on the poem by Edward Arlington Robinson.)

Other takeaways from the evening included the following.

1) The first task of philosophy is diagnosis.

2) Existential living begins with the acknowledgement and acceptance of this fact: I am responsible for my life.

3) Philosophy is not about the love of knowledge. It is about the love of wisdom. It is important to know the difference. (EdNote: Knowledge for knowledge's sake makes us educated fools.)

4) Proper self-love requires affirmations. Most of us need to feel loved in order to love ourselves. Here he shared the importance of "being there for people on a consistent basis."

5) Living Authentically means being able to tolerate vulnerability.

* * * *

A special feature of the evening was the presence of Bob and Angel Dobrow of Zenith Bookstore. The Dobrow's joined our community after Bob's 20-year career teaching math and statistics at Carleton College. Avid readers they are, so to speak, living the dream.

There was much more, and a lot could be said about Prof. Marino's relationship to boxing, but rather than go there (because my notes are sketchy and my memory moreso) I'll hope to take a deeper dive on that sometime in the near future. It was fascinating.

Related Links
Gordon Marino's book will be available at Zenith Bookstore next door to Beaner's Central in Duluth. The store will be celebrating its One Year Anniversary on July 1. Thank you for being part of our community.
Next Thursday will be the Magnolia Salon Summer Send Off Party. Be sure to register so that they know how many Oldenburgers to grill for us.
If you do not live in this vicinity, you can find The Existentialist's Survival Guide here on Amazon.

Meantime, life goes on all around you. Live the life you were meant to live.